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LAGOON CATAMARANS: We Finally Went To The 'Dark Side'! | Sailing Vlog 81 | Sailing Ruby Rose





Yeeeeaaah we did!

This week we sailed our friend’s Lagoon 400 catamaran and, believe it or not, we had some thoughts about it. I know, shocker.

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43 comments

  1. Leave us a comment with your thoughts on Monohull VS Catamaran for a long term liveaboard.

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  2. Now now kids, let’s not argue lol

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  3. I love y’alls videos!! The humor is the best.

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  4. Surprised you havent mentioned or reviewed the Outremer cats, they seem to be a mix of what youre looking for.

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  5. I'm very torn over mono vs. multi. I have romantic feelings about a monohull. To me it is "real" sailing. That said, if you're a live aboard sailor, a Catamaran is like an apartment at sea. Stable, typically faster (not that I'm in a hurry). I hope you two eventually take the plunge. My wife and I value your input, and if it turns out to be a bad decision, we will learn from your mistakes!!!! Cheers to you! Love watching you two and learning from you!

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  6. It sounds like it's apples and oranges. I guess it really comes down to the space and livability of a catamaran over sailing, right? I would think that if you live on a boat, comfort and safety is going to be of utmost import. By your account, catamarans perform well with wind abeam and astern, but if one is a sailing purist, I would think they wouldn't want one. To be clear, this is coming from someone who hasn't sailed yet – just my thoughts. Great channel! 🙂

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  7. please check out the Neel 42 or 47 or 51

    any thoughts on trimarans ?

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  8. Thank you very much for the videos, really like them! Despite being a prof sailor appreciate you personal view and feel of things:)) and seeing places I’ve been to from other’s eyes :)) But, a reason for my comment is other – to be really serious – nothing beats a modern mono in open water. Try a ultra modern mono – meaning wide, twin rudder deep t-keel – let’s say performance cruiser, you will experience different motion at sea/waves etc. As 3 meter keel with 40% ballast bulb changes everything. For instance, on a mooring the motion is up/ down only, not rolling:)) Performance cats are superior just in two areas – on a beam reach and anchor:)) As we consider boats a compromise, a quality performance mono is winning, and for the cost of quality mid-sized cat you will get super mono, and long term value as well…

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  9. Get the cat 😂

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  10. Love you guys! They're monologues, not diatribes :). Thanks heaps for your cat experiences. With love, Ken

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  11. sounds like ATTICUS

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  12. If you get a chance, definitely check out the FP Astrea 42 too, it's currently on the top of my cat list 😉

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  13. Love your Chanel. Don’t forget the Leopard cat. Lagoon & Foutaine are great as well.

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  14. Definitely ——Definitely—— research Privilege Catamarans also. You will be amazed at the difference in quality. No comparison.

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  15. Dark side, lol…

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  16. Charter Captain point of view: people all learn on monos and then plan to buy a catamaran. No one seems to care about sailing characteristics. Cats sail like old fashioned square riggers. But… everyone wants to have the sundowner on a cat. Me, I'm still a mono-guy which is probably just an age thing. I don't think I know one person who planning to voyage on a mono.

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  17. She did run on…

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  18. I am a converted Cat Sailor (for 20 years), I now run a charter company in the UK sailing and chartering Mono hulls and Cats, last year we did a charter for a client with a Lagoon 39 (2016) a Nautitech Open 40 (2016) and a Hanse 505 (2014) up wind there was only one winner…the Hanse! But that's where the mono hull's gloating stopped. Off the wind the Cats came into their own, but the difference in performance between the Lagoon and the Nautitech was the most enlightening, I was on the Lagoon and had to boost my performance with the engine to keep up with the Open 40. But then on the flip side the Lagoon won on space and accommodation, easily the best of all three, yet the shortest boat…So as it has been mentioned before…there are always compromises. We have a 'try before you buy' programme to encourage people to experience cat sailing before taking the plunge of yacht ownership, this is a worth while thing to do, as Ruby Rose are doing now…Keep trying guys, you WILL move to the dark side…its just a question of time! Great Videos.

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  19. Outremer Outremer Outremer.

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  20. That's the boat we delivered!

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  21. The slamming is commonly referred to as "slap" and slap is a very common occurrence for catamarans, look for a cat with high clearance ie, privilege or fountaine pajot or sunreef. 😊😊

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  22. I think the question I have is, 40’ cat or 60+’ mono… I mean if we are speaking dollar for dollar?

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  23. We chartered a Jeanneau 409 in the Bahamas a few weeks ago that developed so many problems that they upgraded us to a Lagoon 39 which was our first kick at the Cat so to speak. It was an easy transition but as you noted, there isn't a lot of feedback to tell you how close to the limits you are running so I ran what I think was quite a conservative sail plan based on the numbers provided to us (1 rf @ >18 Kts, 2nd rf@>25 Kts). The twin engines make maneuvering a breeze, at least until you loose one such as when we had the port eng control panel go dark on us. The 39 we were told is not a great performer but we had several very pleasant days of sailing, 5.5 knots in 15 Kts wind close hauled. I did try to tack in 24 Kts wind….FAIL. Winds picked up after that and this is where I question the benefit of the Cat over the mono hull. In any YouTube video I've watched with a Cat, life on board looks so mellow and relaxed and perhaps this is because most long passages are planned as down wind runs. Our final leg was 40 NM on a beam reach in 27 G 32 Kt winds making about 6 Kts with both sails double reefed and seas coming from our 2 O'clock, it was a very bumpy, rolly ride requiring many items in the cabin to be secured, lots of slamming with waves frequently splashing up into the dingy on davits but only once into the cockpit. With every wave hitting us twice I had to wonder if the ride wouldn't have been better on the monohull. As always, there are compromises and perhaps this would just be one of them in exchange for having a small floating apartment. On most days with lighter air and smaller seas I thought the comfort level on the Cat was great, easy to move around on without the heeling. Even in the stronger wind/waves I didn't think it was particularly bad. My other concern would be moorage fees and finding dock space in the Med. I haven't sailed there (yet) but the impression I get is that it is a busy expensive place and it is not always easy to find space to tie up if so desired. Seems to me La Vagabond had a quote of E 600 for a one night stay someplace I think in Spain….they declined. I am really looking forward to your upcoming episodes as the Med is a place I am looking forward to exploring. Fair winds.

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  24. im sorry i have to say hhhmmm i dont like the lagoon, i like fountaine but they do have some inside bit coming loose and little boarning things but i like them, The Catana i like i think it is a beautiful Cat, sunreef are very nice looking kit but not had one yet and finally i like the leopards i do also they aint best looking but they are a nice boat 🙂

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  25. 7.47 sorry i had to pause it say you two make me laugh so much i could see you two coming so im laughing before lol

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  26. I think you are 100% correct.  from a sailing perspective the cat's are very very different and I think a mono hull is much more enjoyable and fun. But from a live aboard the Cat's have so much more room. My friend two house down had the Fountaine Pajot 44 heila. they go crusing 3 to 4 weeks at a time in the Bahamas every two or three months and they really like love it.  But they do not live on it full time. I have gone sailing with them from Marco Island to Key West, to Fort Jefferson and it is really nice have the room with 6 people on board. it would be a little tight even on a 44 foot sail boat. I have also chartered at Cat several time in the BVI and it is fun for a week. Since I have no plans to live on a boat the sailboat is my choice and just rent a cat 2 or 3 times a year. I am coming from sailing J105 which is a day sailor 34 feet but still a day sailor, Tartan 3500 and Catalina 34 MK II.  for you guys I think a Cat is a great choice because of what you want to do and the amount of time you are on a boat. I have been following you for a long time and greatly enjoy your videos. Safe Sailing

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  27. Cat's 'R butt ugly, we prefer dogs…just remember….She's not happy, 'til your not happy. 🥴😂

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  28. Look at a Neel trimaran, you get the best of both worlds.

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  29. A W E S O M E to hear you guys looking at this – grew up sailing monos and love them to this day, and yet when it comes to cruising and living upon the oceans I dare to say we have found our cat has GREAT SAILING PERFORMANCE and GREAT LIVING ADVANTAGES which is why we went this route.
    Of course folks may differ in their feelings, but living and sailing 24/7 it is nice to have the active daily living areas on one level.
    From a Catana 471 (we owned and sailed casually before full time sailing) to buying our Lagoon 440 (we live on and sail it full time), I would say most production catamarans have similar sailing qualities and it comes down to personal preference. For us at the time, what was of utmost importance is to have space, a homely feel to the boat, the ability to load the boat and still achieve good performance – all of this subject to it being safe to sail the many oceans for the years to come.
    Of course different folks would have different needs / priorities, so one needs to choose a brand and model that fits ones personal preferences for the lifestyle intended.
    Some cats can achieve a very close point of sail by something as simple as the genoa track position as well as the spreader length/s up the mast. So the shorter the spreaders and the closer in the genoa cars are, the tighter one can bring in that sail for a close point of sail before the genoa leech becomes obstructed by the spreader length. This very simple fact can be the difference between a cat sailing on a close point of sail or not, and ironically, we are able to sail as close to the wind on the 440 as with the Catana 471 which has dagger boards (dagger boards being an advantage to some cats but also requiring maintenance). Of course self tacking configurations excluded here.

    Some cats are designed with narrower hulls and better speeds, but as always one has compromises – how large and close to the ceiling the bed is (to find width in the hull some beds are very close to the ceiling and 'wall to wall'), how much weight one can carry for reduced performance – please do NOT trust the published graphs one finds on the internet!
    We have sailed in the company of many 'faster catamarans' which are not faster at all once they are loaded with home comforts.

    I would recommend looking at boat length when it comes to cats – more length provides a smoother ride, speaking of which, trampoline aperture plays a huge role in reduced slamming (the bigger the aperture the less the impact on the boat since water can travel upwards and through the net easier. Most of the impact actually happens right there – at the front under the trampoline). One would be surprised at how much of a difference that makes on a catamaran … it's huge in added comfort (not at anchor but certainly in 'ride') and keeping the 'shock loads' at bay.

    Another important factor when it comes to production cats is the specification of items 'under the hood', so would recommend looking at energy needs and the cable sizes that come standard with the boat. We actually upgraded the entire electrical system (on our NEW boat) for this reason, but we are heavy consumers. Ana is a stickler for checking the detail in quality of materials and how they would look years down the line.

    Back to sailing performance – catamarans have good enough performance and we have never felt to be lagging on any crossing – just did a passage from New Caledonia to Australia this week – in 91 hrs – that is an AVERAGE speed of around 8.5 knots (over 200nm per day) and we are H E A V Y!
    It's never a race for us (we sail for comfort) but we arrived a day ahead of a mono belonging to friends of ours (same length as us and sailing for the same destination at speed). The only reason I mention this is to provide more confidence (Nic – it seems Theresa already figured it out – lol) in terms of sailing performance and our friends on the mono were happily chatting about this to everyone at the dock.

    I read one comment here about capsizing – it is true that a mono will more than likely right itself (assuming it has not lost its keel) and a cat won't, however it takes a lot of effort to capsize a loaded catamaran, and generally it is the result of being overpowered on the sail (reef sooner – the boat will still perform).
    More likely than a capsize would be 'dis-masting' . Even a collision at speed with a weighted catamaran would take a lot to capsize it, however it is possible.
    It reminds me of the tragic event of the 3 sailors from our home country (South Africa – we knew 2 of them personally) who went through 2 cyclones in the Indian Ocean a few years back (we were involved in the search for that cat) – the cat capsized and I feel it did so because the captain (he was good captain too) placed the bows to weather, whereas on a catamaran one should place stern to and deploy warps / drogue if you like. Since they were delivering the boat they never had that gear onboard which is why he probably went 'bows to'. In spite of the capsize, that catamaran was found floating a year later with both hulls fully exposed, the trampoline between the upturned hulls just being below the water line.
    Unfortunately the crew had no EPIRB that fired and the boat was not found in a year. They would have survived those cyclones had they had proper safety devices.

    Anyway – a great video to generate discussion – there are no 'rights or wrongs' in this – Mono-hull or cat – equally good on the oceans – just personal choices.

    Cheers guys

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  30. I like your comments on safety

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  31. I think your comparison of the cat vs mono is spot on. I returned home late last night from a 8 day charter(monohull) in the BVI. A professional skipper that was driving a huge cat summed it perfectly. His opinion is that cats are great for living on, but if you like to sail you buy a monohull. Personally, I like the performance of the single hull. I also don't want to have to maintain two engines, rent a slip wide enough to moor it, and pay the extra yard storage because it is so damn wide. Looking forward to your boat search and comparisons.

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  32. Nice Channel for My 1st view,, I'm in the process of designing a "light live-aboard" Tri,,..One that will need to go through the 'Panama canal' as I live on the southeast region of the U.S.and have plans to Sail/Motor to Indonesia and marry My Fiance..,, I won't speculate on the debate/decision concerning a Cat vs.Mono because it honestly should be which one feels the "safest" in heavy-weather hands-down,, even though there may be times when 1 or the other may outrun the blunt of ah storm,, there's going to be times when the 'storm-fronts are just too big' or 'bad squalls' just pop up out of the blue and are simply unavoidable unfortunately..lol..!!
    I enjoyed you're video work and the discussion at tha end of the video and although I've watched quite a few popular 'Sailing y-tube Channels' I haven't Subscribe to any yet,, You 2 have maybe just changed My mind about that..!!..Be Careful and "☆~Keep on Smiling☆~☆!!

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  33. Love the music! Would be so lovely if you could share the artist from the song starting at 1:50!

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  34. Trimaran?

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  35. Great video – love to hear more about the slamming and motion vs the mono. Seems impossible to find someone who honestly adress those things. Once you have a cat, you seem to stick to the cat and defend it no matter what. Regarding the 90-10 anchor/sailing: Isn't all preparation done for the heavy seas? It is always easy to cock when in port..

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  36. We sold our Catamaran, since we did not feel comfortable in heavy weather (perhaps it was too small a model?) and we could not load it heavy at all. We did not like that cats doing point to windward very well unless you go for a Seawind 1160 (Australian), but very light and can't carry extended cargo for longer trips. At anchor you can't beat it and you are right, most cruisers do spend 90% at anchor. Also check out Leopard Catamarans and if you are in the market for good older ones check out Roberts & Caine 45 from South Africa. We know have an Island Packet 35 and the very happy with it and much less maintenance cost compared to Catamarans.

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  37. Check out a Seawind

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  38. excellent……. camera, music, subject…..A+

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  39. Welcome to the dark side. As you have alluded, not all cats are created equal. I recommend you try the Aussie Seawind cats as they are a great balance between practicality and performance (and good looks, just like your much better half Nick!) Probably compare well $$ wise once you start looking at FPs and Outreamer. Never took you for a cat man Nick. But we all get older and softer. Keep punching above yer weight. Love to Terysa.

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  40. Everytime I watch a new episode the theme music gets me rockin in my chair! Love it.
    As for the catamaran. No comment.

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  41. Talk to Riley and Elayna on La Vagabond they have the knowledge you need.

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  42. Hello,
    All the points you make about the sailing of a monohull, (such as heeling, feeling the strength of the wind, understanding the trimming of the sails etc), you will get to find them on a catamaran. Obviously, just like you did not know what was happening on a monohull after sailing the first time on one when you started, you did not get a chance to discover that on this sail trial. The more you sail on a cat, the more you will find the same pleasures than on a monohull. In fact, you will even discover more sailing pleasures. And no, I am not trying to sale you one… 🙂

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  43. Ultimately you will make the right choice for you, but I just don’t find the aesthetics of cruising Cat’s works for me – Hobicats yes, racing cats yes. But in the end, it has to be your choice – let me know when Ruby is available! ; )

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